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David Thorstad: Bounded Rationality and the Case Against Longtermism
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David Thorstad: Bounded Rationality and the Case Against Longtermism

On theories of rationality, cognitive tradeoffs, norms for inquiry, effective altruism, and concerns about longtermist reasoning.

Episode 122

I spoke with Professor David Thorstad about:

  • The practical difficulties of doing interdisciplinary work

  • Why theories of human rationality should account for boundedness, heuristics, and other cognitive limitations

  • why EA epistemics suck (ok, it’s a little more nuanced than that)

Professor Thorstad is an Assistant Professor of Philosophy at Vanderbilt University, a Senior Research Affiliate at the Global Priorities Institute at Oxford, and a Research Affiliate at the MINT Lab at Australian National University. One strand of his research asks how cognitively limited agents should decide what to do and believe. A second strand asks how altruists should use limited funds to do good effectively.

Reach me at editor@thegradient.pub for feedback, ideas, guest suggestions.

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Outline:

  • (00:00) Intro

  • (01:15) David’s interest in rationality

  • (02:45) David’s crisis of confidence, models abstracted from psychology

  • (05:00) Blending formal models with studies of the mind

  • (06:25) Interaction between academic communities

  • (08:24) Recognition of and incentives for interdisciplinary work

  • (09:40) Movement towards interdisciplinary work

  • (12:10) The Standard Picture of rationality

    • (14:11) Why the Standard Picture was attractive

    • (16:30) Violations of and rebellion against the Standard Picture

    • (19:32) Mistakes made by critics of the Standard Picture

    • (22:35) Other competing programs vs Standard Picture

  • (26:27) Characterizing Bounded Rationality

    • (27:00) A worry: faculties criticizing themselves

    • (29:28) Self-improving critique and longtermism

    • (30:25) Central claims in bounded rationality and controversies

    • (32:33) Heuristics and formal theorizing

    • (35:02) Violations of Standard Picture, vindicatory epistemology

  • (37:03) The Reason Responsive Consequentialist View (RRCV)

    • (38:30) Objective and subjective pictures

    • (41:35) Reason responsiveness

  • (43:37) There are no epistemic norms for inquiry

    • (44:00) Norms vs reasons

    • (45:15) Arguments against epistemic nihilism for belief

    • (47:30) Norms and self-delusion

    • (49:55) Difficulty of holding beliefs for pragmatic reasons

  • (50:50) The Gibbardian picture, inquiry as an action

    • (52:15) Thinking how to act and thinking how to live — the power of inquiry

    • (53:55) Overthinking and conducting inquiry

    • (56:30) Is thinking how to inquire as an all-things-considered matter?

  • (58:00) Arguments for the RRCV

    • (1:00:40) Deciding on minimal criteria for the view, stereotyping

    • (1:02:15) Eliminating stereotypes from the theory

    • (1:04:20) Theory construction in epistemology and moral intuition

    • (1:08:20) Refusing theories for moral reasons and disciplinary boundaries

    • (1:10:30) The argument from minimal criteria, evaluating against competing views

    • (1:13:45) Comparing to other theories

    • (1:15:00) The explanatory argument

    • (1:17:53) Parfit and Railton, norms of friendship vs utility

    • (1:20:00) Should you call out your friend for being a womanizer

  • (1:22:00) Vindicatory Epistemology

    • (1:23:05) Panglossianism and meliorative epistemology

    • (1:24:42) Heuristics and recognition-driven investigation

    • (1:26:33) Rational inquiry leading to irrational beliefs — metacognitive processing

    • (1:29:08) Stakes of inquiry and costs of metacognitive processing

  • (1:30:00) When agents are incoherent, focuses on inquiry

    • (1:32:05) Indirect normative assessment and its consequences

  • (1:37:47) Against the Singularity Hypothesis

    • (1:39:00) Superintelligence and the ontological argument

    • (1:41:50) Hardware growth and general intelligence growth, AGI definitions

    • (1:43:55) Difficulties in arguing for hyperbolic growth

    • (1:46:07) Chalmers and the proportionality argument

    • (1:47:53) Arguments for/against diminishing growth, research productivity, Moore’s Law

    • (1:50:08) On progress studies

    • (1:52:40) Improving research productivity and technology growth

  • (1:54:00) Mistakes in the moral mathematics of existential risk, longtermist epistemics

    • (1:55:30) Cumulative and per-unit risk

    • (1:57:37) Back and forth with longtermists, time of perils

    • (1:59:05) Background risk — risks we can and can’t intervene on, total existential risk

    • (2:00:56) The case for longtermism is inflated

    • (2:01:40) Epistemic humility and longtermism

    • (2:03:15) Knowledge production — reliable sources, blog posts vs peer review

    • (2:04:50) Compounding potential errors in knowledge

    • (2:06:38) Group deliberation dynamics, academic consensus

  • (2:08:30) The scope of longtermism

    • (2:08:30) Money in effective altruism and processes of inquiry

    • (2:10:15) Swamping longtermist options

    • (2:12:00) Washing out arguments and justified belief

    • (2:13:50) The difficulty of long-term forecasting and interventions

  • (2:15:50) Theory of change in the bounded rationality program

  • (2:18:45) Outro

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